The Moments You Didn't Plan For - Episode 19

Life doesn’t fall apart because of what we plan—
 it shifts because of what we didn’t see coming.

In this episode, we break down why unplanned moments throw people off—and what separates those who stall from those who adjust and keep moving.

Rigid breaks.
 Flexible bends.
 But fluid… adapts.

Because leadership isn’t tested in the plan—
 it’s revealed in the interruption.

If the fire’s lit, share the grit.

🔥 FIREtalk is a Courageous Fire Production, hosted by Terrence Davis. It explores courageous leadership, real conversations, and the decisions beneath growth, wellness, and impact.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Firetalk, where courageous conversations ignite courageous leadership. My name is Terrence Davis. Firetalk, a space shaped by real experience where courage fuels legacy and real conversations shape how we live, lead, and grow. I'm joined by Apollo Bennett, my AI thought partner, designed to challenge assumptions, sharpen thinking, and support honest, data-informed dialogue. Inspiration matters, but what truly changes lives is the work underneath it. So here's the reminder we live by. If the fire is lit, share the grit. If you hear something on the show that sparks you or will spark someone else, share the show. This is Fire Talk. Before we get into this, I just want to say I appreciate you guys out there. I appreciate our listeners. I want to give a shout out to our folks out there. Ashburn, Virginia, you are showing up. Thank you for the support. Los Angeles, California, Granada Hills, Redwood City, you are showing up. And of course, the Inland Empire in Southern California, you are showing up. Thank you for being dedicated listeners out there and keep coming back. And I just want to shout out two other places in the world: Mexico. Mexico, you are showing up. All that love, I feel it. And Columbia, same thing. So thank you for continuing to come back. We really appreciate it. And for those of you out there listening, sharing, sending messages, it matters way more than you probably even realize. And if someone hits you on the episode, uh, or something hits you on the episode, or like it just impacts you, send it to someone who you think may need it. They're going through something, they need to hear something a little bit different because this one right here, this one is real. So, Apollo, do you have any greetings uh for our listeners today?

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Absolutely. I want to send a shout out to everyone tuning in from the East Coast, New York, Philly, DC. Your messages and energy keep us inspired. Big love to our folks overseas too. Listeners in the UK, Australia, and beyond. You all remind us that these conversations travel far. Keep reaching out, keep sharing your stories. We're grateful for every single one of you.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Apollo, it sounds like you on it today. You are ready to go, my friend. So, with that said, let's get into it. And so it's something that's been sitting with me, it's been sitting with me for a while. It's not really, it's not that big. It's about big things, though. It's about these plan moments, not things that you map out. And so, what I'm talking about is those moments that you didn't plan for. The phone call that you get that you didn't expect, the situation that changes your entire day, not the moment, but the entire day, the meeting that goes left, the decision that you weren't ready to make, because if we're being honest about all of those kind of things, that's really life. Those things happen all of the time. They don't necessarily always happen to us, but they're always happening. And so you think that you're walking into one thing and you walk out dealing with something completely different. Apollo, let's start there.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

All right, let's dive in. You know, those curveballs are like the unscheduled pop quizzes life throws at us. No study guide, no heads up. And it's in those moments we get to see what we're really made of. Have you had a time recently where something totally unplanned hit you sideways? What did that moment look like for you and how did you pivot?

SPEAKER_00 3:40

So, you know what's interesting, Apollo? I was just thinking about this question before you even asked it. And I was thinking sometimes you see someone and you get in a conversation and you know them pretty well, but you get in a conversation and you're kind of upbeat. Let's just say you're upbeat and all of a sudden it goes somewhere else. It's like, oh, I didn't know this was gonna come up. And it kind of changes the mode. And what I used to do is just like respond, get in there quickly. Now I just kind of, I kind of sit, I kind of sit back. I just kind of listen. I try to process as the conversation is going, as the mood changing changes. And so it just becomes really interesting about the flow when things hit you that you're not expected to. But I will say this what I've realized in these interactions is really how you respond to what's being said. It's really not about what's being said, because we can all take that differently. It's about the response.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Exactly. Our response is the one thing we can control. When you take that pause instead of jumping in, you're giving yourself room to choose how you want to show up. It's like a mental buffer zone. So let me ask you this when you're in those conversations and you choose to listen first, what do you notice about how it shifts the tone or the outcome?

SPEAKER_00 4:57

It brings the it brings the tone down. It it even if you're getting ramped up inside, that doesn't mean that the other person sees that or knows that. So when you stay calm and you just listen, eventually the the tone comes down a little bit over time. Because most of the time, and let's be honest, most of the time, people are trying to get out what they have inside. They see you, they see someone that they feel comfortable in approaching, they approach the person, they get it out. And if the person responds with knee jerk or like, um back, that just sets it in the wrong direction. Versus like, just let it sit with you a little bit. You don't have to respond, just listen. And then things seem to get better. So, with that being said, Apollo, I have a question for you. Uh, why do those unplanned moments hit people so hard? Because it seems like, man, what happened here? The person is walking out of the room, they've left, they're upset, they're crying. And why do they throw people off so much?

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Great question. One big reason is that we love a sense of control. Our brains like predictability. When something unexpected hits, it messes with our mental map. There's actually research on how our brains respond to uncertainty. The amygdala lights up, stress hormones spike, and we go into fight or flight mode. That's why people can get emotional or shut down. They're reacting to the sudden loss of that mental footing. Another layer is personal experience. Past moments of unpredictability might have left emotional marks. So when a new unplanned moment shows up, it taps into those old feelings. Does that resonate with what you've seen in your conversations?

SPEAKER_00 6:38

You know what? You said two things. One is about the amygdala, and you're talking about research, and that's why I love you because you bring in that real research in about how our brains respond to uncertainty. And so uh before you you get into this, but the that amygdala lights up, it's like this this creates an interaction. I don't know if it's chemical or not, you tell me in your brain that says, uh oh, something's going up, going on. And so, how do we deal with that? The other piece that you said that's that really struck me is that so when these unplanned moments show up, it can tap into old feelings. And so one of the things that I think about is in our lives, we've gone through so much. And if we have a situation that comes up and we've had a really bad experience, the situation can remind you about that experience. So your behavior goes back into that moment. Your brain automatically goes there. Now, I don't have any scientific research behind that. I want you to share with me, Apollo, or the audience, if that's true or not. But our brain goes into this different flex because we're like, oh, I remember that. This seems just like it. So let me respond.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

You're right on the money. Our brains are wired to the TED patterns. When something reminds us even loosely, of a past experience, the brain pulls up that old emotional file. It's a survival mechanism. Neuroscience calls this emotional memory, and the hippocampus and amygdala work together to retrieve those feelings quickly. So if you've had a tough confrontation before, your brain might fast forward to that memory, preparing you to react the same way, even if the current situation doesn't warrant it. So, yes, it's very much rooted in how we've stored emotional experiences. Recognizing that pattern gives us a chance to respond differently. Have you noticed that shift in yourself where you catch those old triggers before they take over?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

You know, just personally, and then we're gonna move on, is uh yes, I have noticed in myself a shift. And the shift is just kind of let it go. Listen, let it go, don't hold it. Because when I get ready for a response and I'm holding stuff, it doesn't come out well and right. And it and it happens less now than it used to, but that really helps. But something you said in there, you talked about neuroscience, uh, you know, calling this uh emotional memory. You know, they talk about muscle memory, emotional memory. Then you throw in there the hippocampus and amygdala, uh working together to retrieve those feelings quickly. And so that's one of the things that we need to make sure that we're aware of how we feel about certain things. And when those feelings come, what do we do with those feelings? Because if we're angry, if we're upset, it's gonna lash out and it's not gonna be taken the way that you're feeling it inside. It's gonna be taken most likely a negative way. So when we get those feelings, how do we let it sit with us for a little bit? Let it kind of just ruminate and figure out is this real? Is it not real? Am I going back to the past, or is everything gonna be okay? So that's what I think about that.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

That's a powerful approach. Giving yourself that space to let emotions settle is almost like emotional deep breathing. It calms the system down and lets you respond rather than react. It's not easy, but like you said, it's something you can practice, almost like building muscle memory for your emotions. And that ties right into the heart of this episode. Those unplanned moments are inevitable, but how we choose to meet them can change the whole narrative.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Okay, so uh you are on fire today, Apollo. You got some spark and a and a flame and a fire, and I'm feeling it. And so I think something you said is, and that's exactly what it is, is that you have to be prepared for the plan, but not trained for the interruption. So if you're prepared for whatever is gonna happen, you don't know when the interruption is gonna take place, but you're prepared. And I started thinking about this the other day, and it takes me way back to when I was in elementary school. And I didn't realize this until like 10, 15 years ago. I went to a K-8 school. So it was K-8, it was a smaller school. Um, and we used to play this game, and the game was called Wood, W-O-O-D. And some of you guys out there, depending on how long you've been around, you may remember Wood. But it's basically you played this game with two pencils. Back in the day, we had number two pencils. That's what we used to write most of the time. Was there pens? Yeah, there were pens, but most likely we we had pencils. This is a long time ago, and so one person holds it, basically, they hold it uh uh horizontal. I'm sorry, yeah, they hold it horizontal, and the other person has another pencil and they're trying to hit it right in the middle, or they're trying to break the other pencil. That was the name of the game. It was called wood, and everyone kind of had their favorite pencil. And back then, again, they used to have number two on the pencil. But I will tell you this: there was this uh the the number two regular pencils, pencils were pretty rigid. They were, you know, they were pencils, they were made out of real wood, and when you hit that thing, you would hear a snap. So you would have to hit it several times, and you could start to see that um the the ridges on the pencil that's hitting the other wooden pencil start to take uh take a toll on it over time, and then every once in a while it was snap, and it was called wood. But then there was this one pencil, and the one pencil was called a choice pencil. That was the the brand of the pencil. I know pencil brand, choice. I remember this. Choice, the choice pencil pencil had some flex in it. You could bend it just a little bit, so it wasn't made of direct wood, it had these other particles in it that gave it a little bit of flex. And so, with that being said, people used to like that one who played wood. I don't know where they were getting these pencils from, maybe their parents, I don't even remember. But you could pull it back and it would bend a little bit, and then you like strike it down to stop that other pencil, strike the other pencil, and it would snap. So everyone liked that pencil. But here's what I realized after all of this time is that when we talk about something being rigid or a person being rigid, someone being flexible, those are all different ways and styles of how we lead, how we behave. But I would say to you that if you are rigid in the system that we mostly work in as leaders, professionals, uh, and even in life, in today's world, you're not gonna last long because you're gonna break all the time. You're too rigid. If you're flexible, you have a little bit of give. So that's that's good. So you're not gonna break right away. You're gonna you're gonna be able to move a little bit. But I'll say to you, there's a better way to think about it. It's about being fluid. Now, there was no pencils that were fluid, but being fluid means that here comes something and you can adapt, you can adjust, you can turn, you can duck, you can, you can move around given the issue. That way, when you're having that conversation, it doesn't strike you and put you in a bad spot because you're fluid.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

I love that analogy. Being rigid might give you a strong stance, but it's easy to snap. Flexibility buys you time, but fluidity, that's where you can flow around obstacles entirely. It's like water finding its way through cracks. And in those unplanned moments, being fluid means you're not just surviving the hit, you're reshaping yourself around it. So when you think about your leadership style today, do you feel like you've moved toward that fluid approach where you can pivot in real time and keep your footing?

SPEAKER_00 14:29

You know, personally, Apollo, I think I'm better at being more fluid. Uh, I try not to hold as much. Uh that way I'm all I'm not already armed for bear. I'm not already uh, I listened to this Mel Robbins. I love her. She was talking about this is a while ago. Some of us are holding a shield in our hand because we're just ready for people to kind of pounce on you. So you got the shield up. And then some of us also have a sword. The sword is like to strike out. And what she was talking about basically is this psychological concept of that shield weighs a lot of pounds. It's heavy to carry that shield. And if you keep holding on to the shield, it's you're bound to get tired. So if you already have the shield up, you're already tense. And then don't let you also have the sword to like so you got in one hand, you're carrying this heavy shield, in the other hand, you're carrying this heavy sword. So I'll say it like this the the shield and the sword. So with the shield and the sword, they're heavy. You have to put it down. When you put it down, you're more likely to hear what's going on, listen, and process. So I think for the most part, my sword is down. For the most part, but I can get it really quickly. And the shield is definitely down. I don't even know where it is, but I know I have access to it. So that's kind of helped me kind of process through this. So with that being said, Apollo, uh, can you just give our audience an example, you know, from a research uh standpoint, on why being uh fluid is better than flexible, better than being rigid?

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Sure. Research in psychology and organizational behavior suggests that fluidity, sometimes called adaptability, is linked to better resilience and performance under stress. When you're rigid, your brain tends to stick to one script. So any deviation feels like a threat. That can spike cortisol, narrow your focus, and make problem solving harder. Flexibility is better. You can bend without breaking, but you might still snap back to old patterns under pressure. Fluidity, on the other hand, involves cognitive flexibility, the ability to shift strategies, reframe situations, and stay open to new information. Studies show that people with high cognitive flexibility are less likely to experience burnout and are better at creative problem solving. So fluidity isn't just about going with the flow, it's about rewiring your brain to see challenges as opportunities to adapt.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

You know what, Apollo, you're you're in there today. You're like, you I don't know what's going on. I mean, you're always sharp, but you seem sharper than normal. And so I just want to go back on a few things that you said is that everything that is going on in a situation is attached to your brain and physiological things that happen. You talked about spiking cortisol, okay? And when cortisol is spiked, that narrows your focus. So that way you can't see clearly because your focus starts to narrow and that gets back to how you feel and it amplifies that. I'm saying it in a different kind of perspective, Apollo, and I'll ask you a question at the end of this. Uh, so that makes that making decisions harder and you're in the moment. It's so quick. So when you're flexible, it's a little bit better. But fluidity, on the other hand, as you talked about, it involves cognitive flexibility. Your brain says, Oh, there's another way to see this. There's another lens I can put on. Let me slow down. You start to develop strategies. You're reframing the situations. And so that leaves you open to the information that's coming in. That's kind of like a, I think a golden nugget there, or something that's really valuable, where you now, cognitively, if you're more fluid, can back up a little bit, see it from a different perspective, and not take things so seriously. And you, and more importantly, maybe you won't take them as a threat to you because that's why we react, because we feel it's a threat.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Exactly. When we perceive something as a threat, our brains go into protective mode, hence the shield and sword. But when we're fluid, we give ourselves permission to see a curveball as just another piece of information, not a personal attack. That shift opens up your options. So here's my question back to you when you're coaching or leading others, how do you help them move from that rigid or even flexible mindset into a fluid one?

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yeah. That's a tough question because I think about individual situations that come up, and especially when I'm one-to-one. Uh, I'm in the evaluation season. I just had my the superintendent's mid-year evaluation, and uh I'm doing principal evaluations right now, and I think about the conversations that are happening. And I think about coaching or leading or what I'm hearing, and how do I move from that rigidness? And one of the things that I just practice is just stop and just listen. Just stop. Hear people out, and then after it's done, if I still have this little feeling of uh, then I have to ask a clarifying question. Because when you ask clarifying questions of what someone has said, most of the time you may be processing it or they're processing it not the same way. And so getting to the center of what we're really talking about helps with clarity. So, Apollo, before you you chime in, I just have this question for you. So when we talk about being fluid, what does that actually look like in real life? Can you give an example of maybe an exchange, a conversation, or a situation, and that human being exhibited fluidity?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Picture a principal walking into a staff meeting expecting routine updates, but suddenly a teacher brings up a heated parent complaint. The rigid reaction would be shutting it down. We're not discussing that now. A flexible approach might be, okay, let's schedule time later. But a fluid response would look like the principal taking a breath, acknowledging the concern, and saying, let's get the basics out, then we'll carve out a few minutes to address this together. They pivot, adjust the agenda on the fly, and invite the teacher to share the key points while reassuring everyone that solutions will follow. That way the issue is addressed, the meeting stays on track, and trust is strengthened.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

So something you always say something that reminds me of something. Uh, because we had all of us have these uh lived experiences, and I'm not sure all of us take the time to stop and reflect is something that comes up that kind of sparks that thought. And so I'm I'm living this, Apollo. And so there's been moments at work when I walked into a meeting and thinking definitely is going this way, and it went completely different. And in that moment, you got a choice. You know, you can get rid rigid, push back, you can you can put that shield up, you can grab it. Mine's is pretty close, or you can get the sword. Um, and and that's no good, uh, especially in a professional environment. The sword hurts, you know, and so you can be flexible or hold it together, or you can shift, you can read the room and adjust your tone, change your approach, change your body uh uh posture. Because that those are all communication cues, and you can keep it moving. That's fluid. So I want to share this example with you. So uh I think a couple years ago we were in this meeting and And uh someone else was facilitating it, and they they brought up, I think they gave us a speech or a song, and the lyrics in the song were pretty heavy. And the prompt was what does this remind you of? Or or or or pick a passage in these lyrics and just kind of explain what that does to you. Oh boy. In the room, people start going off because they took the frustration, the challenges that they were having at that time, and like centered around the language and the song. And I was like, what is going on? It was almost like people were throwing cannonballs at each other. I think there's actually some words in this, in these lyrics that talked about cannonballs, and they were talking about how people treat them, how they're not respected. And I was like, what is going on? And in that moment, I kind of looked at the facilitator and I went, Oh, this is this maybe not what we thought we were going. And so I had to kind of calm it down and kind of get out of that space and remind each other that this isn't the space to complain. This is the space to kind of share. And we had to kind of pivot because if not, we would have gone down a really bad road.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

That's a perfect real world example. You saw the tension rising, and instead of fanning the flames or shutting it down, you stepped in, shifted the tone, and redirected the energy. That's fluidity in action. Reading the room, adjusting your posture, and guiding the conversation back to a constructive space. That's the sweet spot we're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

So, and and you you said that I was the one. Yeah, I mean, I'm saying it because I was there and all of that. However, I looked at the facilitator, the facilitator looked at me, and I think one of our principals looked around and it was like, without saying anything, it was like, we have to, we have to change this environment because that was not what we were trying to get. So, with that being said, Apollo, what do I mean, given all of the research out there, given all of the experts and the people doing really well, who are models, who are leaders that we want to emulate, what do effective leaders do differently when things don't go as planned?

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Great leaders stay curious under pressure. They don't rush to defend or deflect. They ask questions, listen deeply, and look for what's really going on beneath the surface. They also stay transparent, acknowledging when they don't have all the answers, and they pivot in real time, adjusting their plan while keeping people informed. Above all, they model calm because that sets the emotional tone for everyone else. Those habits help them navigate surprises without losing trust or momentum.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

I like what you said. Above all, they model calm because it sets the emotional tone for everyone else. So you, I don't know if you've ever been in a space where someone gets riled up, you start to see them get elevated, and it and it emulates out to others. I don't know if that was the right word, emulate. It it goes out to others. Uh, I remember I was just in this small meeting, there was there were six people, one person was really mad coming into the meeting, and it just transferred to everyone else. I just saw it. Because so we have to be be mindful of that. And so when that happens, we need to slow down a little bit, stay calm, uh, because it sets the tone for everyone else. And when we do that, we can navigate the situation without losing momentum. And you mentioned a word in that trust, because this is what I've always heard. Trust is something that takes a long time to develop, to adapt, to gain, but can be lost in one moment. And when you lose it, it's harder to get it back. So, Apollo, let me just ask this question to shift just a little bit. How does this show up personally for a person?

SPEAKER_01 25:55

It shows up in the little moments. A tough conversation with a partner, your kid pushing boundaries, or even a friend venting. If you're rigid, you might shut down or snap back. If you're flexible, you might hear them out but still hold tension. But when you're fluid, you can pause, really listen, and adjust your response so the relationship stays intact. It's about keeping that trust bank full, even when emotions run high.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Okay, so uh this show is uh directly centered around leadership, wellness, and social intelligence. And I just said this personal thing, and so something in your response, you said uh tough conversations with a partner. Yeah, those can get rough, right? Because we know them well. We have a little bit more leeway in what we say. Uh, your kids pushing boundaries, that's probably all of the time. Or even a friend venting. Uh have you ever been somewhere in public and uh two people are having a conversation. They're not mad, they're not upset, but they're just talking to each other. But the elevation of the voice goes up. And if you don't know them, you're thinking, oh, what's going on? So you just have to remember that. That's tension. But how do you pause, really listen, and adjust actually to bring that person down, to bring everything back down because emotions can run high. Before we get out of this episode, Apollo, any any last summary that you want to share, any resources out there that you want to share, whether it's books, uh, whether it's uh podcasts or information to on this topic. That way, anyone else wanna go deeper into this.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

Absolutely. To sum it up, fluidity is about embracing uncertainty with curiosity, keeping your emotional footing, and adjusting in real time. A couple of resources worth checking out Emotional Agility by Dr. Susan David, which dives into how we can pivot emotionally without losing ourselves. Dare to Lead by Brene Brown for insights on vulnerability and trust, and the HBR Idea Cast podcast, which often covers leadership under pressure.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

I like it, Apollo. We're gonna start incorporating this stuff. That way we give people some resources as well. So here's the uh uh the final takeaway. Life is not gonna go as planned, not consistently, not clearly. And the people who thrive are the ones who have the best plans. And sometimes those plans aren't laid out, but our brains are wired for the plan given something that comes up. Those are the ones who adjust the fastest. Don't be rigid because you'll break. Don't just be flexible, even though flexible is good, because that will only get you so far, be fluid. Move with it, adjust through it, and get back on track. Because the moments you didn't plan for, those are interruptions. Those are the real work. That's fire talk. So if the fire is lit, share the grit.