The Hidden Cost of Avoidance - Episode 21

Avoidance feels small in the moment—but it adds up fast.

In this episode, we break down the hidden cost of putting things off—whether it’s a conversation, a decision, or something you already know needs attention. Because what you delay doesn’t stay the same… it grows.

Strong leaders don’t wait for problems to become obvious.
 They act while things are still small—when it matters most.

If the fire’s lit, share the grit.

🔥 FIREtalk is a Courageous Fire Production, hosted by Terrence Davis. It explores courageous leadership, real conversations, and the decisions beneath growth, wellness, and impact.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Firetalk, where courageous conversations ignite courageous leadership. My name is Terrence Davis. Firetalk, a space shaped by a real experience where courage fuels legacy, and real conversations shape how we live, lead, and grow. I'm joined by Apollo Bennett, my AI thought partner, designed to challenge assumptions, sharpen thinking, and support honest, data-informed dialogue. Inspiration matters, but what truly changes lives is the work underneath it. So here's the reminder we live by. If the fire is lit, share the grit. If you hear something on the show that sparks you or will spark someone else, share the show. This is Fire Talk. I am so happy that you keep coming back. We appreciate you being here. And I just want to give a couple shouts out before we get going. Aspern, Virginia, you keep showing up. Thank you so much for listening to the show. The Inland Empire is strong in here. Los Angeles, metropolitan era, you are in the house. And I always like to talk about our global uh listeners. So, Finland, you are showing up. Helsinki Usima, whoa, you are showing up. Thank you for listening out there. In Colombia, you are still strong. So let's go ahead and get into this because I've been thinking about some things. Uh, and it's I think it shows up everywhere. Leadership and organizations and your personal life, and it's really an avoidance. Not big, not dramatic avoidance, but these little things that we avoid and people avoid, uh, the things that we see, but don't address it right away. And the question that I keep coming back to again and again is what is that actually costing us? So, Apollo, let's start here.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Absolutely. Avoidance can seem small, but it adds up. It's like compound interest in reverse. Every little thing we leave unaddressed grows into a bigger cost. How have you seen that play out in your leadership or personal life recently?

SPEAKER_00 2:09

You know, oh, leadership, I have several examples of it because things move so fast, and sometimes you don't have an opportunity to get to things. And then by the time you get to them, they've already blown up. So what I've had to do is create a system that way I keep those things in front of me, that way I address them continually and I don't let them kind of uh lose sight. Personally, I will say if we don't take care of our health, we have these things that are bothering us, and we're like, I don't have time to go to the doctor. I don't have time to do this. But if we don't do those things, things kind of get rough. So, with that being said, Apollo, why do people avoid these things that they already know that we have to deal with?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

A lot of it comes down to discomfort and uncertainty. We know something needs attention, but addressing it might mean facing conflict, admitting we're stretched thin, or discovering something we don't want to hear. And when things move fast, it's easy to justify pushing it aside. The irony is the longer we avoid, the more energy it takes to fix later. Does that resonate with what you've seen when things blow up?

SPEAKER_00 3:14

You know, I don't know about things blowing up. I try not to get that far, but I will share this with you. So I have to do something upcoming, and it's been heavy on my mind and my heart for the last several weeks, and it's coming up. And uh I just kind of hold that. And yes, I guess we have I have this psychological time thing and psychological mental model that I'm carrying most of that in my mental model because it hasn't happened yet, but it's something that I have to tackle. And I'm saying that because sometimes the conflict that we know is there, that we know is going to happen, we don't want that conflict. So we try to avoid that. But if you avoid it, it can create some pretty serious outcomes or pretty serious impact that are negative in our life that we don't want. So we have to avoid that conflict, and that can be tough.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Yeah, it's tough because that anticipation can feel like a weight in itself. We carry it around replaying scenarios, and it drains us even before anything happens. Sometimes acknowledging that weight out loud, like you're doing now, can be the first step to lightening it. What do you think might help you feel more grounded as you head into that conversation or situation?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

You know, what for me was what's grounded is just to know I have to do it and know what the end result is as I do it and while I do it and as it's done, because it's going to be a positive impact on those who who need the help. Uh, I just know it's going to be tough to do. But nevertheless, let's let's talk a little bit about leadership. And I want to tell you this story quickly when it comes down to when you're in the work environment or setting and things you know may happen, but if you don't do something, it can get a lot worse. So several weeks ago there was an incident that came up, and I talked about it on the previous podcast. But after the event happened, now this is with students at a school site. After the event happened, allegedly, well, not allegedly, this communication went out from students to other students, and the adults got a hold of it somehow. And basically it said is you basically, in so many words, it says, that was practice. Tomorrow we're really gonna, you know, go out and do these things. So when I heard about it, I made sure the site administrators basically checked to make sure this was accurate, and they did. And when they checked to make sure it was accurate, now it was already uh five, five thirty, six o'clock in the evening. So everyone, most people were home for the evening, but I said, you know what, if we just sit on this, it's gonna be an issue. And so what happened that evening is we enacted our emergency crew. We basically uh I notified the board, we talked with principals, we talked with site uh APs, we spoke to uh law enforcement, and we sent communication out to the teachers, to the staff, to parents, uh, to the community at large and say, this is what we're hearing, and this is what we're gonna do about it. And the other thing that we did is we ensured that we had enough staff to show up at the site just in anticipation. Because sometimes we hear rumors and we kind of let it go, but this time we got everyone involved. That way I know parents were talking to their students, basically saying, hey, this isn't gonna happen because these are the consequences. And that morning we had so many people in the space, eyes open, and we were able to uh stop some things that were going to happen. And I can just imagine if we didn't have that conversation or we didn't make that shift, it would have been a lot worse. It it would have, it would have really gone down a road that how do you bring that back? So I know that how important it is to address things versus kind of letting them go.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

That's a powerful example. And it shows how proactive leadership can change the trajectory of a situation. You didn't just hope things would settle, you mobilize the team, communicate it clearly, and set expectations before anything escalated. It's a reminder that addressing potential problems head on can create a sense of safety and trust. In your experience, how did your team respond afterward? Did they feel more empowered to act quickly next time?

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Well, that's a good question, Apollo, because you you said mobilize the team, communicate it clearly, set the expectations. And so those are what I love about you, Apollo, you're able to kind of put in words what happened. So I kind of share with you what happened and you clarify for me what went on, which gives me words for the things that are being done. So let me just say this: mobilize the team. Yes, contacted everyone that evening, made sure everyone was on the same page, what the steps were. Do you have any questions? So we were aligned before we actually embarked upon the next day. And the expectations were so clear in the connectivity, there were no missing links. And I will say, with our team, we've had some conversations since then. And I just so proud of the work that they do. I'm so proud that they show up and connect it to each other. And that's been built over several years, but I have to tell you, it makes such a huge difference in our community at the school site. And I'll say this the parents, the staff, uh, and the leadership and the community see that. And it and it brings us together in a way which makes us stronger each and every time. So let me say this, Apollo. Um, what actually happens when leaders delay something they already see? It happens all the time. But what are some of the things that are gonna occur? Like you see these little things and you're like thinking to yourself, do I do something? Do I say something? What happens when we don't do it or say anything?

SPEAKER_01 8:55

When leaders delay, a few things tend to happen. The small issues can grow into bigger problems, eroding trust and morale. People start to sense uncertainty or feel unsupported, and that can lead to confusion or even more avoidance down the line. It also sends a message, intentional or not, that certain issues aren't priorities, which can chip away at the culture you've built. On the flip side, addressing things promptly, even when it's tough, reinforces that sense of clarity and accountability. How do you usually decide when something needs immediate attention versus when it can wait?

SPEAKER_00 9:26

You know, let me see if I can get that on the back end that question. How do how do you decide? But I want to go something in, I want to go in a little bit more in depth into what you said. Uh how some problems, you know, they can erode trust a morale. And so I'll say this when you are in a position of leadership, sometimes people think you know all of the answers, or they think that you can just say, no, it's not gonna happen, it doesn't happen. Or they think you have control over situations. And if you're in a leadership role, you know that's not the way it works. But the key here is seeing what may happen or occur based upon past things, and then intervening, getting involved, having a conversation. Because when you don't do that, I'll say it this way: the leader is getting blamed for what happens, whether they even know about it or not. They go, why did the superintendent let this happen? Why did the principal do this, or why didn't they do that? So that means that you have to be aware of what's happening. And when you know something is happening, you have to act. That doesn't always mean you doing something. It may be a conversation, then other people have a conversation, then we get it resolved. But by just not being active and letting things sit, it doesn't go well. And just to answer your question, Apollo, how do you usually decide when something needs immediate attention? I think in the seat that I sit in, if it's going to get to the point, whatever the issue is, and it's gonna hit the media, it's going to definitely hit the board of trustees because people start talking quick and information moves quickly in our environment, especially negative information. Positive stuff is like snail mail. Negative stuff, man, is lightning quick. So when I know something is going to be lightning quick, and I know it's not accurate, and there may not be a lot of transparency around it, people don't know. That's when I know I need to act, I need to do something, I need to uh engage the team to get communication out to clarify the situation.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

You're right. Negative information moves fast, and staying ahead of it is crucial. By anticipating where the conversation could go, you're not just protecting your team's reputation, you're reinforcing trust with the community. And I like how you frame action. It's not always about you personally stepping in, but making sure the right people are engaged and the message is clear. That clarity goes a long way in preventing those bigger hits to morale and trust.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

So, uh and I think that's it right there. That that's the shift. It's basically that avoidance isn't harmless. Like, so if you avoid it, it's not like nothing happens, it's expensive. And the longer you wait, the more it costs. And I'm not per se necessarily talking about dollars and cents. As you mentioned earlier, sometimes it costs relationships, it costs trust. And that's so, so important because as we all know, it takes a long time to build trust, but that trust can end over one moment, over one interaction, over one exchange. So, Apollo, why do we keep doing it? Why do we keep not keep resorting to avoidance even though we know better?

SPEAKER_01 12:48

I think it's human nature to want to dodge discomfort. Even when we know better, it feels easier in the moment to push something aside than to face potential conflict or uncertainty. There's also that hope that maybe it'll resolve itself or that we'll have more time later. But as you said, avoidance is expensive. It's a reminder that courage and leadership isn't about never feeling hesitant, it's about acting despite that hesitation.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

So let me jump on this, Apollo. Uh, you said that it we hope that it's gonna resolve itself. Here comes something, uh, it'll resolve itself. Uh, and that we'll have more time later to deal with it. There's no more time coming. It's not, and the time that you think is coming, it's gonna be over before you know it because time moves so fast. And so I'll say this there, the the the things from my experience and what I've what I've seen that resolve themselves are petty things. These are rumors, these are social media things that pop up and that have no validity, and it it can pick up some steam, but sometimes the little things you ignore it and it goes away because it has no fuel. When you don't give things fuel, they die, right? Things become alive because of the energy and the fuel that's given. And most of the time, that fuel is driven by fear, misinformation, andor rumor. So you kind of have to, every situation is a little bit different, but you have to analyze the situation to see is this just something that's based upon fear, uncertainty, or miscommunication? Or is this something that's really viable that may create more issues moving forward? And if it's something viable, maybe there's some some truth to that, maybe something wasn't communicated right, that's when I think you have to jump on it, clarify, and communicate. So, Apollo, given all of that, what does it look like to lead differently with some of these situations?

SPEAKER_01 14:46

It looks like being proactive with clarity and communication. When somebody pops up, you pause, assess whether it's just noise or something with real impact, and then act quickly if it's the latter. You don't let fear or uncertainty slow you down. You clarify the facts, communicate openly with everyone involved, and make sure people know where things stand. Leading differently means being deliberate about that process so you're steering the narrative instead of reacting to it.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

And so I think of when I hear something and I've heard it from more than one person, then I start to inquire. Hey, what's going on? Try to try to close the loop to find out. Well, not close the loop, try to verify if what I'm hearing is accurate or there are pieces of it. Try to get to where it's coming from. And sometimes, again, that's not me. That's me talking to people to find out the information. Then when I get that back, then brainstorming on how and what we do to move forward, to kind of nip it in the bud. Because if it festers, it grows. And it grows, not in a pretty way. It grows uh malignantly. Let's just say that. It kind of goes throughout the system. And then the next thing you know, someone is hearing something that has absolutely no truth, but that's because we didn't stop it where it needed to be.

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Exactly. Leading differently means you don't let rumors or misunderstandings fester. You verify, gather facts, and then act quickly to address it. That might mean calling a meeting to clarify, sending out a clear message to everyone involved, or just having one-on-one conversations to clear the air. It's about making sure the truth is louder than the rumor so the system stays healthy.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

So the system stays healthy. Given that, I'm gonna turn, make a little turn into uh how this impacts us personally, because uh it does. And I think of two things. One is I think of us in terms of wellness and where we are and where our bodies are and what's what's going on. Because sometimes something comes up, we feel a pain, or we know something isn't going right, and sometimes we ignore it. We say, uh, you know what? I know I have this issue. I know I need to get to the doctor, or I know I heard I need to take this, and we don't do it. The next thing you know, now that's advanced and to a certain place, and now when we try to treat it or address it, it's gonna take way longer. And sometimes you can't even finish it. So, so given that, just from a standpoint, Apollo, of wellness, when we don't take action and we avoid addressing what we need to do or go to the doctor, can you give us some examples of how that can really impact us with our wellness and how we our overall impact?

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Think about something like high blood pressure. It often has no obvious symptoms, so it's easy to ignore. But if it goes unchecked, it can lead to heart disease or stroke, things that are far harder to manage later. Or take untreated injuries. Maybe you tweak your knee during a workout and brush it off. Without attention, that small injury can turn into chronic pain or require surgery down the line. Even stress, ignoring it can lead to burnout, sleep issues, or immune problems. Addressing those issues early, getting a checkup, resting when needed, managing stress helps us avoid bigger health battles later. It's like preventive maintenance on a car. Small tune-ups keep things running smoothly and prevent breakdowns. Ignoring them can make recovery longer, more costly, and sometimes impossible to fully fix.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

And that is the key, I think, right there. You said it. Small tune-ups keep things running smoothly. And that goes for everything that you do in your personal life. If you just address those little things here and there, they don't blow up and you keep moving forward more fluidly. I I really like that example.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

You've got it. Those small tune-ups keep momentum, whether it's checking in on your health, addressing a minor conflict, or fixing a small miscommunication at work. It's about staying ahead so everything runs smoother and you're not constantly putting out fires.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

So let's go to home-related things. So I want to just share a quick story. Uh and this deals with the refrigerator. So where I live, the home was built a little over 20 years ago. We were the second people to move in. And the refrigerator that came with the house is a built-in. It's like built into the space. They actually call it a built-in refrigerator. And so it had been functioning for um 15, 16 years, almost 20 years before, no, yeah, 20 years before it went out. So it went out last year, and that was quite a uh something else. But I knew something was wrong. Every once in a while, the motor would start making noises, it would go out, and I'm like, no, we're gonna just keep going. We're just gonna keep going because refrigerators are expensive, especially that type of refrigerator. So we just kept going. And then it would go out for a day, and I was like, it's okay, it's gonna come back. But at the end of the day, I needed to get a new refrigerator. But the thing is, we need to pay attention to those things that we hear and we know that are gonna go down a road. That way we save ourselves time, energy, and resources.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Absolutely. That's a perfect example. Ignoring those warning signs just prolongs the inevitable and often makes it more stressful when it finally happens. Whether it's the hum of a fridge motor, a leak in the roof, or a strange sound in the car, addressing it early saves you from a bigger headache later.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

And so uh as we wrap this episode up, Apollo, is there anything that you want to ensure that our audience hears from this episode? Some one thing that they can take away and they can start to work on in order to make sure they don't avoid things. That way they can, their life, uh, their leadership runs just a little bit more smoothly.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

One simple takeaway. When you notice something's off, pause and ask yourself, is this something I can clarify or address right now? Then take one small step. Make the call, ask the question, schedule the checkup. That small action keeps things from piling up and helps your life and leadership run more smoothly.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Because I'll tell you this if you take the five minutes now to address the thing, then you won't be spending days later to address it because it's blown up past the point of just regular root uh routine maintenance. So take care of it first. Spend the time up front to save yourself a whole lot more time and resources later. And with that being said, Apollo, when we talk about resources, based upon this episode, do you have any resources, books, uh information, things for people to look up to kind of help them if they want to dive a little bit deeper?

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Sure thing. A few resources come to mind. The power of habit by Charles Duhig is great for understanding how small actions prevent bigger problems. Brene Brown's Dare to Lead offers guidance on courageous conversations. And for wellness, Atomic Habits by James Clear breaks down how small daily choices lead to big health and productivity improvements. Each gives practical steps for tackling things head on.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

So here's the takeaway Avoidance doesn't eliminate problems at all, but it compounds them. And the longer we wait, The more it costs. And I'm not talking about financial resources. Sometimes it's trust, it's relationships, it's the pressure that we feel, it's the weight that we carry. So strong leaders don't wait for things to become obvious. They act when things are still small. Because that's where the real leverage is. That's fire talk. So if the fire is lit, share the grit.